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Frames and Steering head angles....

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moosehunter

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Howdy All....



I'm building a motard bike and am having troubles getting the geometry I'm looking for. This bike will be used for both short and long tracks. Indoors and out...



I'm building off a DC +1 frame, using a set of 6" Bombshell forks and a DC +4 swinger. With a stock length shock, the forks look really raked out. Even more so due to the leading axle design. By my calcs, better than 6" of trail. When I switch to a 260mm shock (such as a standard i-shock) the front comes into spec, but the rear is way up in the air. Same rear end conditions with a +2 swinger with a 260mm shock, just not as dramatic....



I've even tried to modify the sub frame to lower the bodywork. This did take some of the "stinkbug" out of it, but not enough to make the mods worthwhile.



Are there some frames out there that have a steeper head angle than others? Or are all the aftermarket frames basically the same? Is there a reasonably priced frame out there that excels in the world of mini motard? Or should I ditch the whole idea of an aftermarket frame and run a stocker CRF frame? :confused:



NOTE: I know a few of you with DC frames had some issues a while back. However, I like the frame and would like to run it if at all possible. I'm looking for real world advice. NO DC SLAMS!!
 
#2 ·
OK I will start by saying...I will never buy from RED BARON again...they are

D!CKS and their customer service is horrbile, when I bent one of their frames, they said send it back and they will replace it, once they had the frame they said I must have dropped my bike off of a building or something, and accused me of lying. If they were local I would have been knocking their door down. They said it was not a factory defect. Then after all was said and done and I told them to just send the frame back, they would not do it. He refused to give the frame back to me...His excuse.."I need to send the frame back to the manufacturer so they can fix the problem so this wont happen again". lol How about contradicting everything they just said...Well anyway. Sorry for writing all that, the point is...I HATE RB...But their frame has the head angle you are looking for. The only frame I have seen so far that doesnt rake the forks way out. I will see if I can get a picture up for you.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Contact...

Quick update...



I'm currently in contact with Sean at DC and were looking into this issue.... If we can figure it out... GREAT!!! I'll run the DC frame and be a happy camper up on the podium. If not... so be it. Then I just need a frame better suited for my VERY CUSTOM application....



Please remember this is a very custom build with a lot of one-off parts. If I had the technology to build my own frame, I'd do just that. However, I can't. So after a long search through many frames, I chose the DC frame as I thought it would be the best option in a aftermarket frame. So, I say again, please don't think this is a DC slam thread...



QUESTION.... Are there some frames out there that have a steeper head angle than others? Or are all the aftermarket frames basically the same? Is there a reasonably priced frame out there that excels in the world of mini motard? Or should I ditch the whole idea of an aftermarket frame and run a stocker CRF frame?



Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated!! :cool:
 
#4 ·
I run only stock frames as they are lighter, shorter, and in my opinion just better suited for Motard use. I was going to have DC build me a one off stock length frame but I am not sure if I am still going to do that. This is an issue that concerns me as well though, Let me know what you figure out.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Thanks...

Thormx said:
how about just shortening the forks to 4"?
Click to expand...


Thanks for the suggestion...



However, that's one of the first things I tried. It does help the rake slightly, but not enough. And it does nothing for the arse in the air attitude...
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Motarded said:
I run only stock frames as they are lighter, shorter, and in my opinion just better suited for Motard use. I was going to have DC build me a one off stock length frame but I am not sure if I am still going to do that. This is an issue that concerns me as well though, Let me know what you figure out.
Click to expand...


Modifing to stock length "may" help... But wouldn't that just leave me with a shorter, raked out frame? I think my issues are in the head angle, not so much the length... If it comes to shortening the frame, I may just have a few degrees taken out of the steering head as well.... :cool:
 
#8 ·
I was saying that would help. lol. But I know he was willing to make a custom frame for me, so He might do the same for you with a different head angle. There is nothing wrong with the head angle of the DC frame, But I like it a little more steep...except for the dirt I actually like a little bit of rake, and that is what most of these frames are being used for.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Motarded said:
I was saying that would help. lol. But I know he was willing to make a custom frame for me, so He might do the same for you with a different head angle. There is nothing wrong with the head angle of the DC frame, But I like it a little more steep...except for the dirt I actually like a little bit of rake, and that is what most of these frames are being used for.
Click to expand...


EXACTLY!!! There is NOTHING wrong with the stock head angle of the DC frames!! This is completely my own preference for a very custom project.



The fact most of these frames are designed around dirt use may be my answer right there. I'll talk to Sean about it and see what he says. I'd rather go with a frame "off the shelf", but if I must go custom... oh well... :cool:



BTW... Check out the SPEED channel... Good bike racing going on RIGHT NOW!! :cool:
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
JohnnyB said:
What about having new triples or adjustable ones made to your spec instead of a frame ???
Click to expand...


Thanks for the idea!! The one problem here is my solution needs to be cost effective. I'll wager a guess that new triples or custom made adjustable triples would be a bit more expensive than a frame mod or even a new frame... :cool:
 
#12 ·
so why dont u just go measure a streetbike frame?? or an nsr and make ur bike the same wheel base with the same head tube angle??? im sure if you go down to a welding/fab shop they can change your headtube angle, if you dont have a welder yourself.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
bulkytits said:
so why dont u just go measure a streetbike frame?? or an nsr and make ur bike the same wheel base with the same head tube angle??? im sure if you go down to a welding/fab shop they can change your headtube angle, if you dont have a welder yourself.
Click to expand...


That would be a heck of an idea, however the only welding/fab shop anywhere near me.... Well let's just say I wouldn't let them touch my lawnmower, let alone a bike I was going to ride...



IF frame mods are in order. I'm hoping to be able to send it back to the manufacturer to have it done. After seeing the craftsmanship that went into building this frame, I know for a fact Sean and the guys at DC could get the job done... Okay, a shameless plug, but you gotta respect folks that can weld like this!!! :cool:
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Kurlon said:
Turn your fork lowers around, go from leading axle to trailing axle. That'll cut your trail without reducing rake so the front won't tuck in turns.
Click to expand...


Actually, I'm looking into that as we speak... LOL!! I road raced a Yamaha 550 Vision (man!! does that put a date to me or what? ;) ) and that had a trailing axle front end... It was a heavy old pig, but with the right tires handled great. I'm a bit concerned about the brake positioning with a trailing axle plan... I'll see what happens... :cool:
 
#16 ·
moosehunter said:
That would be a heck of an idea, however the only welding/fab shop anywhere near me.... Well let's just say I wouldn't let them touch my lawnmower, let alone a bike I was going to ride...



IF frame mods are in order. I'm hoping to be able to send it back to the manufacturer to have it done. After seeing the craftsmanship that went into building this frame, I know for a fact Sean and the guys at DC could get the job done... Okay, a shameless plug, but you gotta respect folks that can weld like this!!! :cool:
Click to expand...




oh, that sucks, but its cool that the manufacturer will do it!!! good luck with ur frame man. i like kurlons idea!!
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
Shopping Cart???!!!

goinonfiddy said:
I dont know, that trailing axle sh!t just reminds me of a shopping cart wheel and you've seen what they can do. LOL!!!
Click to expand...


Not to worry... without more mods than I willing to put in, the "shopping cart" idea is a no-go. Just thinking my bike would have that as a nick-name would have been enough to stop me... :lol:
 
#19 ·
at last resort some one should be able to slice a sliver out of the frame on the underside behind the neck , tap it in a few degrees and re-weld it. that would be the easiest solution i could think of after everything else that's been mentiond.



let us know what you finally do
 
#20 ·
goinonfiddy said:
I dont know, that trailing axle sh!t just reminds me of a shopping cart wheel and you've seen what they can do. LOL!!!
Click to expand...




A shopping cart wheel does that when there is not enough 'trail' from the pivot point.



Guys who run the Red Baron forks that do not have leading axles like the Bombshells will usually tell you that the bike seems to be more stable... because it is. There is more trail in the front end because the rake has not changed and the axle sits farther back.



Yes, it would look strange if you spun them around... but likely handle MUCH better and not be twitchy.



~E
 
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