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Honda Z50 - What year is this?

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GreatGazoo

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,

I'm new to the forum. Rode minis as a kid and was thinking about getting back into the hobby. Was looking at this as a winter project. Can anyone tell me what year it is? The tank looks to be off an older model but not sure.

Thanks for any help or advice.

Gazoo
 
#3 · (Edited)
GreatGazoo said:
Hi Guys,

I'm new to the forum. Rode minis as a kid and was thinking about getting back into the hobby. Was looking at this as a winter project. Can anyone tell me what year it is? The tank looks to be off an older model but not sure.

Thanks for any help or advice.

Gazoo

View attachment 99334
Click to expand...
Ever heard that Johnny Cash song, "One piece at a time," about the guy who works at the Cadillac plant and smuggles out parts in his lunch box over about 30 years, and then puts them all together one day? "Well, the headlights, they were another sight; had two on the left, and one on the right..."

The black frame, chrome rear shocks and exhaust pipe design suggest that's a Z50A from between '72-'78...after '78 they called them Z50Rs, and they had a red frame and the shocks weren't chrome anymore.

The fuel tank is from a Z50A-K2, which is a hardtail design made in '70 and '71...the oval tank badges are the giveaway. Earlier hardtails had round badges; bikes after the K2 were the first "softtails," or K3 models.

I can't tell from the photo if the seat pan is from a hardtail or a K3-through-'78 softtail model; closer inspection would show that the mounts for each are shaped a little differently.

I can't say for sure, but you might have a pretty decent K3-'78 bike there that just has a different-style fuel tank on it. If the original tank mounts are intact, and whatever is holding the current tank seems solid enough to trust, you could get the seat upholstered and run it like that until you found a suitable K3-'78-style fuel tank.

BUT...K2 hardtails did not come in black, and did not come with monocolor tanks. Z wheels also did not come in black. Why are they black now? Because it looks extra sinister, or because it's concealing corrosion or bondo or something? Check it out. Do you see pitting on the wheel rims?

Also try to shake the rear wheel from side to side and see if the swingarm seems to have any sideplay wiggle at the frame pivot. Those frames' pivot holes can go egg-shaped at that point. See if the forks boing smoothly up and down, or if the lower fork tubes seem bent back from a barn collision. See if the handlebars line up symmetrically or not. Does it have an air filter? How does it run? Exhaust smoke?

I usually like ratty bikes at least as well as super-nice complete ones, but my opinion is that at best, this bike has been jacked around with and needs close inspection. If it runs well and you can get it cheap (couple hundred bucks, max...otherwise, keep looking) and just want a beater to ride or a project starting point, it might be a good purchase, but don't be talked into paying out for vintage mojo. There's too many vintages going on there for that as it sits, and if you're going to be paying, say, $400-500 and up, you should be getting one that's not painted over and not a mix of parts.
 
#6 ·
I will try to keep mine brief! How ya been guys?

Anywho, I wouldn't worry about the tank it looks to have obvious issues as you can see the old lawn mower tank hanging with a fuel line hooked up to it. I finally noticed something nobody else did! Yeah for me!!!!!
 
#7 ·
CrawlerD said:
I will try to keep mine brief! How ya been guys?

Anywho, I wouldn't worry about the tank it looks to have obvious issues as you can see the old lawn mower tank hanging with a fuel line hooked up to it. I finally noticed something nobody else did! Yeah for me!!!!!
Click to expand...
Goin to school on the short bus...and hey, D, where you been? You're right, though. I was thinking that lawnmower tank was sitting on the floor or something in the background before.

But don't knock plastic Tecumseh lawnmower tanks! 350 years ago, when I got my hardtail, I had one of those bungeed to the front of the seat and top frame tube while I waited for my new K2 tank to arrive at the Honda dealer, where I'd ordered it for $140 (1992ish). It looked weird but worked well.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
mexicanyella said:
Ever heard that Johnny Cash song, "One piece at a time," about the guy who works at the Cadillac plant and smuggles out parts in his lunch box over about 30 years, and then puts them all together one day? "Well, the headlights, they were another sight; had two on the left, and one on the right..."

The black frame, chrome rear shocks and exhaust pipe design suggest that's a Z50A from between '72-'78...after '78 they called them Z50Rs, and they had a red frame and the shocks weren't chrome anymore.

The fuel tank is from a Z50A-K2, which is a hardtail design made in '70 and '71...the oval tank badges are the giveaway. Earlier hardtails had round badges; bikes after the K2 were the first "softtails," or K3 models.

I can't tell from the photo if the seat pan is from a hardtail or a K3-through-'78 softtail model; closer inspection would show that the mounts for each are shaped a little differently.

I can't say for sure, but you might have a pretty decent K3-'78 bike there that just has a different-style fuel tank on it. If the original tank mounts are intact, and whatever is holding the current tank seems solid enough to trust, you could get the seat upholstered and run it like that until you found a suitable K3-'78-style fuel tank.

BUT...K2 hardtails did not come in black, and did not come with monocolor tanks. Z wheels also did not come in black. Why are they black now? Because it looks extra sinister, or because it's concealing corrosion or bondo or something? Check it out. Do you see pitting on the wheel rims?

Also try to shake the rear wheel from side to side and see if the swingarm seems to have any sideplay wiggle at the frame pivot. Those frames' pivot holes can go egg-shaped at that point. See if the forks boing smoothly up and down, or if the lower fork tubes seem bent back from a barn collision. See if the handlebars line up symmetrically or not. Does it have an air filter? How does it run? Exhaust smoke?

I usually like ratty bikes at least as well as super-nice complete ones, but my opinion is that at best, this bike has been jacked around with and needs close inspection. If it runs well and you can get it cheap (couple hundred bucks, max...otherwise, keep looking) and just want a beater to ride or a project starting point, it might be a good purchase, but don't be talked into paying out for vintage mojo. There's too many vintages going on there for that as it sits, and if you're going to be paying, say, $400-500 and up, you should be getting one that's not painted over and not a mix of parts.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen it in person yet and I'm a little hesitant as its about a 3 hours drive...

The guy wants $300 for it. I'm looking for something to "restore" to original/new. Now I'm wondering if things have been sliced and diced to get otherwise different year parts to fit. To top it off the guy doesnt have the ownership papers but is willing to provide a bill of sale to prove its not stolen...
 
#10 ·
GreatGazoo said:
I haven't seen it in person yet and I'm a little hesitant as its about a 3 hours drive...

The guy wants $300 for it. I'm looking for something to "restore" to original/new. Now I'm wondering if things have been sliced and diced to get otherwise different year parts to fit. To top it off the guy doesnt have the ownership papers but is willing to provide a bill of sale to prove its not stolen...
Click to expand...
Compared to many here, I am a hack, content with ratty-looking bikes and preferring to spend my time getting them to run and not worrying if they're dirty or have surface rust coming through the chrome, etc. I ride an unrestored K2 hardtail that's pretty grungy, and like it because it's a solid, durable little thing to buzz around the farm on, and it's not really getting any worse if it gets wet or muddy sometimes. But compared to things that members like Shapeshifter or Z build, it's pretty awful.

So take that into consideration when I open my pie-hole, but to me, IF the bike runs and the tank's not flopping around (or held on with a piece of bedframe angle iron welded to the top tube with 1/4" stick-welder electrodes set on 225 amps so it burned holes through the metal, or whatever) and the wheels aren't rusted out and the rear wheel doesn't shake all over from swingarm pivot wear, $300 will get you something you can probably tool around on a little at first and have some fun while you decide what you want to tackle first.

But make sure what you want as an end product is in fact a '72-'78 softtail Z50A. As long as you're looking at a $300 starting point and many hundreds of dollars of parts to attain restored status, you should realize that you have some leeway to make a choice and are not limited to the bike pictured. Some people prefer the '69-'71 hardtail era, and some prefer either of the eras of later Z50Rs...round fenders and bulbous gas tanks from '79-'89 (I think) and more angular with one-piece rear plastics after '91. Perusing this site will show you many stock and modded examples of each era.

I grew up with a riding buddy that had a '78 Z50, so I'm partial to that styling myself, but from what I've read here and found myself, non-rusty fuel tanks for '72-'78 Zs are somewhat harder to come by and there aren't as many aftermarket options. Could be a bit of an expensive Ebay hunt, or it could just involve some patience and watching Craigslist like a hawk. There were a lot of hardtails built, despite a fairly short production run, and there are (comparatively) lots of parts--useable used, or repro--available for them.

I like hardtails and the '72-'78 bikes better than Z50Rs mostly because with their taller, longer, more padded seats and the tall folding handlebars, they were laid out more with an eye for adults being able to ride them without folding themselves up too much. Z50Rs don't have the odd folding handlebars and are a little more dirtbike-looking, but the seat/bars/pegs relationship is definitely more kid-oriented in stock form, so if you go that route you'll want to consider taller aftermarket bars, a lower peg mount, etc. unless you're pretty "compact."

So, I'd cautiously say that for $300, that bike might be worth going to look at...although a 3-hour drive is pretty far. But if you're not going to blink at spending that amount for something you're going to be doing substantial work on anyway, research and search out the specific model you want rather than limit yourself to this bike just because it's available now.
 
#11 ·
Now that I look more closely at that photo, I think that's a hardtail seat pan. It's definitely some later-style throttle rather than the stock inside-the-bars Honda design that would've come on a folding-bars bike. I think that's a Z50R/XR50/CRF50 air filter, but it's a little hard to see. But what's really got me scratching my head is, look at the top of the steering head, underneath the upper triple clamp. Do I see a spacer between the upper triple clamp and the upper steering head bearing's cone race? I believe I do, and if that's the case, that would suggest that those are early CT70 fork uppers, which had a design similar to a Z50 but more space between the triple clamps, for the CT frame's taller steering head tube. I know, because I tried that swap myself.

Think the guy would come off that $300 price? I'm leaning toward letting him sell it to someone else for $300 while watching from a safe distance. If he does not succeed, see if you can get him down below 200. Meanwhile, keep your eyes open for stuff that doesn't look like I did medical experiments on it.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
mexicanyella said:
Now that I look more closely at that photo, I think that's a hardtail seat pan. It's definitely some later-style throttle rather than the stock inside-the-bars Honda design that would've come on a folding-bars bike. I think that's a Z50R/XR50/CRF50 air filter, but it's a little hard to see. But what's really got me scratching my head is, look at the top of the steering head, underneath the upper triple clamp. Do I see a spacer between the upper triple clamp and the upper steering head bearing's cone race? I believe I do, and if that's the case, that would suggest that those are early CT70 fork uppers, which had a design similar to a Z50 but more space between the triple clamps, for the CT frame's taller steering head tube. I know, because I tried that swap myself.

Think the guy would come off that $300 price? I'm leaning toward letting him sell it to someone else for $300 while watching from a safe distance. If he does not succeed, see if you can get him down below 200. Meanwhile, keep your eyes open for stuff that doesn't look like I did medical experiments on it.
Click to expand...
I sent him an email looking for more details and sme negotiating room before I drive all that way...

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again!
 
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GreatGazoo
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