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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all.
I really wanted a gas mini bike for years and finally ready to spend up to $1,000.
I need help what to get. I haven't really dove deep into searching yet but figured I'd ask here too.

I wanted the Coleman rb200 196cc when it first came out, they used to be all over Walmart website for only like $600 shipped but they seem to have disappeared from everywhere.
Initial rb200 reviews said the wheel hub broke which is the last thing I need.
I emailed Coleman but they had no explanation why the rb200 seems to be discontinued, I was hoping they fixed the wheel hub and were rolling out more but it's been like a year.
Newer reviews don't mention the wheel hub breaking, only certain batches did or something so if I can secure an RB200 I might get that because I really like the beefy look and feel. Will be using for trails and some side street.
I figure parts from Coleman are easier to get years later and not be screwed with something I can't get parts for, but Monster Moto, Massimo, etc might actually be more reliable for parts later?

I like the rb200 doesn't look too much like a motorcycle with a fake gas tank I don't really want but I think 196-212cc is main thing and not something too small like 100cc although I could have fun with that too but don't want to feel like I'm on a kids bike I'm about 5' 9" 165.

I eventually want to modify the engine to give it more take off speed, I don't really need it to go faster than like 30 MPH in case there's a mod for that but I hope to at least give it more take off speed. I'm pretty good with engines plus YouTube videos make it easy.
I have a harbor freight nearby I can get the engine from if I decide to get just a frame. I read some frame kits have way better brakes that the premade 196-212cc bikes.

I have a tractor supply nearby also and they have some mini bikes and I think I can order to the store free delivery whatever their website shows because they barely have anything at the store.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
I'm leaning towards something like a 196-212cc coleman BT200X, with front shocks for the woods, but no faux gas tank.

Reason is I'll basically be illegally using this on side streets and the ones with gas tanks scream ARREST ME for riding a motorcycle illegally!
They look too much like a chopper and not a mini bike but the bt200x etc are still 196cc same power but kinda looks like a toy or how I think a mini bike should.

In NJ if you have a regular drivers license which I do, you can legally without any registration etc ride a 49cc moped that doesn't exceed 25MPH, and must have PEDALS anywhere you can legally ride a bicycle.
My main argument is despite it's 196cc-212cc, 4 cycles are very slow compared to 49cc 2 cycle and ultimately can't do over 25MPH (I think they do go over 25 and I also might mod it especially for faster pick up) but basically they're slow pick-up and I honestly don't even want to go fast other than having decent pick up, and will wear a helmet and not ride like an idiot.
I've seen a local cop let some guy on an RB200 go no problem and basically only showed up because I think he triggered a back of the school motion security camera around night time when I was walking the dog near the woods.

The ones with pedals are like overpriced and hard to find and tires no good for woods. Plus these mini bikes are built stronger, I could buy some vintage moped that meets the requirements but then have to worry about it falling apart while riding. I think a mini bike not going fast is also much safer than electric long boards and scooters I see some guys using.

The woods I plan on riding are state/town owed and thus illegal for dirt bikes (basically everything in NJ is illegal for dirtbikes) but an eagle scout mapped out trails which means to me you can ride a bicycle on them and thus a pedal 49cc under 25MPH.

In the 90s I had a FA50 49cc moped I rode those woods with (and side roads), it went 30MPH. I let my brother take it for a spin and a cop followed him back, gave him every ticket possible, no helmet, no moped license, unregistered vehicle etc. A few months prior my friend rode by some lady babysitting she screamed at him not to come around there again. When my brother took it for a spin he passed that house was having a BBQ with off duty cop(s) and that's how that happened basically. Towed my moped also and we ended up gifting it to the tow company. At court all charges were dropped, lawyer walked behind judge's desk and snitched on some guy drinking in a car in the parking lot who was with some other guy in court I noticed looked hammered who was in there for some drug thing or something, in exchange for charges dropped apparently, or that's what the lawyer said at least and as we were leaving some guy in parking lot was getting arrested, maybe lawyer used it as an excuse instead of basically saying he's buddy buddy with the judge.


The TrailMaster MB200-2 might be one of the best larger mini bike options and already has torque converter and maybe faster pick up sprocket and maybe better brakes but again I think I can talk my way out of trouble easier if I'm not riding a chopper clone.

Highly unlikely but I do want fast pick up in woods in case there's some wacko runs after me or something or even a bear charges I can get away faster. Plus it's just no fun taking off so slow, I was considering even a tiny 100cc for the 'talk my way out of it factor' since I don't want fast top speed anyway but at 165 lbs the videos I've seen it'll basically be like using a kids tricycle plus having to kick off to get going.

Not sure the make and model but i read something about a kit without engine someone said was better than colemans etc because the brakes (not sure if hydraulic or what is best) and something about the light not flickering or something.
There might be some frame kit that doesn't look like a chopper that I can basically get the best brakes, light, torque converter/pick up and put a 196-212cc on it but for now I might just get the BT200X or similar. Because I want something NOW to ride while it's still sort of Summer and don't want to make a project first.

I've also been looking at 125cc Apollo dirt bike because they have good pickup but that really screams arrest me for street riding. again I don't even want to go fast at all, just cruise for fun, but dirt bike on street = trouble, but it would have faster pick up, but from some videos of 196cc-212cc mini bikes seem to have good enough pick up but not sure if modded.
Much prefer wide tires of pit bikes though for snow riding etc than a dirtbike.

I also have to research engines if I go custom/kit route because I can get from harbor freight a cheap 212cc predator for like $150 but i see 212 Tillotson Racing Engine is like $450 and not sure the difference, likely way faster pickup but maybe can mod a predator and torquer convert it good enough. And I want something ASAP so will likely go BT200X just for now and if I upgrade I'm ok with losing a couple hundred or whatever on a resale.


edit, I would still buy the coleman RB200 despite it looks like a chopper too but not as much as the ones with gas tanks but I can likely just remove the fake gas tank if the better ones (brakes, light flicker, torque, parts availability, sprocket, etc) have it and problem solved.
 

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In NJ if you have a regular drivers license which I do, you can legally without any registration etc ride a 49cc moped that doesn't exceed 25MPH, and must have PEDALS anywhere you can legally ride a bicycle.
In NJ, I'm pretty sure a moped has to be plated and insured in order to ride it on the street, and if there is a "No Motorized Vehicles Allowed" sign posted by bicycle trails, a moped isn't permitted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Don't need fast Top Speed, I prefer to stay under like 30MPH anyway.
I want fast Pick-up though. Pick-up and mini bikes don't go hand in hand. A 2 cycle dirt bike like an Apollo 125cc would be better but I don't want one now.
If possible I prefer something already built like this, but also OK with building it.
5'8", 165 lbs, very able-bodied.


I'm good with small engines, youtube tutorials makes it easy too.

Want 196-212cc, front shocks, headlight. Doesn't need great shocks because not riding crazy in woods or jumping, nor need great braking because aren't going too fast.

Want small frame like Coleman BT200X which has front shocks and a light, or the TrailMaster Storm 200 (doesn't have front shocks and unsure if even available, doesn't have light either). BT200x is about 7" longer at 5 feet overall and prefer that.

To fit a torque converter on a BT200x might need to cut the frame, raise engine w spacers, loose exhaust heat shield etc, but I'm ok with that if I choose a BT200x unless there's a better option.
Some guy on youtube torq converted his BT200x and thinks it actually had better pickup as stock but got faster top speed with the converter, someone replied should have just used a different tooth sprocket and/or aluminum flyweights for better pickup, or that uphill the torque converter will really show. I don't really have hills but still want fast pickup. Some mentioned that it might be better to use a Predator 212 to 'just throw a tav on" (and not have the problems the guy had with a cheaper torque kit having to use shaft adapters and bang on things and shave things down etc). But I think they meant because he used a 3/4" crank kit with adapter to 5/8" which needed adapters. The 200 series Coleman torque kit should fit no problem but is about +$200 and unsure if worth it.



Sprocket size, pre-stretched chain, torque converters, stage 1-3 upgrades, removing govenor, etc, are all new to me but I think I need these for faster pick up.
But I don't want the engine to blow when I'm miles into the woods. I can replace a blown engine cheap though for like $150 212 Predator Harbor Freight.

I'm in NJ and have within decent driving distance Harbor Freight, Camping World, Tractor Supply, Walmart, in case I can get something shipped to store free and save on that.

I watched some Predator 212 vs Tillotson 212 videos but they go too in depth and lost me but I think in terms of pick-up it doesn't make a huge difference to justify double price of a Tillotson if I buy a kit and a Predator instead. Tillotson might be able to charge a headlight and not the predator but I'm ok with even just using some battery powered headlight if available or even just one or two 18650 battery bicycle lights.

Is there a small frame kit (not kid size though) with shocks that can use a 212 predator and get very good pickup with some of the easier mods?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
ok so I basically figured this all out now, sorta.
correct me if I'm wrong:

stage 1 kit is easy to do for most people and cost about $150 and increases overall power/speed but I'm not sure if it'll add much speed from a dead stop, it probably would though but not much, same with removing the internal governor.
Using a larger rear sprocket gives better pickup speed, that's what a rep at Go Power Sports (apparently the go-to site for bikes/kits/parts etc) suggested, plus a better chain and better chain tensioner roller kit.
If there's hills involved then a torque converter should help speed, but for flat ground/street a TC doesn't do much for pickup from a stop.
Basically all mini bikes are 4 stroke even these racing ones on youtube doing 100 MPH, but for as fast as they go they don't go so fast off the line, that's just basically the nature of a 4 cycle engine, it's more torque'y than zippy like a 2 stroke dirtbike which is fast off the line. I think of it like lawn equipment - a zippy high RPM common 2 stroke string trimmer is fine for cutting grass but if you use a stick edger or mini attachment tiller to dig through high resistant dirt then the 4 stroke Torque (not RPM) works better but isn't as zippy. It's kinda like a small tug boat pulling a ship instead of a speed boat pulling a ship.

Most racing 100 MPH ones are super customized with stage 2-4 which you can say does 'give fast pickup off the line" but it's kind of a culture like mini choppers to get that type of sound only a 4 stroke engine has especially with aftermarket mufflers. A 2 cycle would be faster off the line but once it picks up into the engine's power band or whatever it's called then it doesn't really matter if it's 2 or 4 stroke.

stage 2, 3 , 4 is basically replacing many of the internal engine parts with stronger heavier parts like valve rocker springs and then lighter aluminum parts like the flywheel instead of the heavier stock steel one. These kits run about $250. These kits max out what the engine is capable of in terms of top speed, and from a stop, and sound. They can be a bit risky to blow up or overheat an engine and have to tune them (valve clearances etc) now and then.

Basically with the cost and work of 2-4 stages, if speed off the line is what you really want you might be better just buying something like a $850 Apollo 125cc which gets great reviews.
If you're riding side streets with a souped-up stage 3 type mini bike, even slowly, but with a screaming loud (or even silenced but with obvious customized aftermarket carb and air filter etc), it basically screams CONFENSCATE MY BIKE AND ARREST ME! Just like riding a dirt bike on the street.
Larger frame kits like the bigger Colemans and the mega moto 212 (great kit BTW with TC, shocks, dual hydraulic brakes) basically look like normal size motorcycles and not toy-like and I think are more likely to get one in trouble especially if no helmet.
Rather than basically playing dumb with something like a stock, small-frame coleman that you picked up from the local Walmart/Lowe's/Tractor Supply etc even though your state might have strict laws.
You can still get the same 212cc etc power on a smaller frame though like the BTX200, or 80/105 frame, or Storm 200 etc and I think these look more harmless riding slowly on side streets even w stage 1. Although some TC kits on smaller frames might need to cut the frame etc.

That's basically my thoughts, personally I don't want fast take off speed on the street nor to go fast top speed, but on trails, sand, mud, hills etc it's best to have some good pick up speed rather than putting along, also if some whacko or bear or something goes after you in the woods you can be out faster if you can't carry a gun or something in there.

for now I'm getting one of these smaller frame bikes with 212 and likely stage 1 and TC and that should be fine..

lots of states now you totally legally ride an electric bike anywhere that you can ride a regular bicycle (as long as it/you doesn't exceed certain MPH) and some of them are pretty damn fast and powerful and good pick up but there's just something about a gas engine a lot of people like, plus you can refill gas a lot quicker than recharging.
I'm excited to get a mini bike.
I had a Suzuki FA50 moped back in the day when I was like 14, rode it all over town WOT no helmet no worries, deep into the woods even with my heavy-set friend on the back seat it kinda moved decently, never had a problem, that thing was fun,, until my brother took it for a spin once and rode past a house that warned my friend a few months prior not to ride it near there, then a cop came, towed my bike and threw the book gave him every ticket imaginable because it was considered a motor vehicle.
Some years ago I tried buying another moped off craigslist and basically got scammed by some scumbag something like ''nah you really shouldn't test ride it around here but it runs good though' he idle'd it for like 5 seconds probably on just starter fluid or something until it stalled out or something, and by the time I got it home and tinkered with it for a few days and realized I couldn't get it to run for nothing and not really worth taking whole engine apart or driving all the way back to him, I parted it out on ebay and doubled my money.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I've basically narrowed it down to these.

If I get a Coleman I'll likely sell the engine for a Predator 212 or 224cc and stage 1 it, because I'm thinking TC, parts/repair, repairs, stage kits and everything else may be easier with a Predator, despite even if there's a slight performance advantage with a Predator.

Not trying to go fast but want good low end power from a dead stop or uphill, so sprocket upgrade fitment and TC fitment etc is a factor.


I prefer the mega moto 212, it already has hydro breaks front and back and a TC and a good light that doesn't flicker. I feel safer and more comfortable on the larger frame BUT I feel like it's a cop magnet riding on side streets even slowly, whereas the smaller ones look more harmless and easier to talk my way out of or something.
I feel I might as well be riding a $875 Apollo 125cc dirt bike on the street because I want fast pickup more than fast top speed.

I want to ride trails half of the time and don't want such low ground clearance or tiny tires of the 80/105.

but actually most of these are almost as long as the mega moto 212.


I'm 5' 8" 165 not huge but I don't really want to ride a smaller 80/105 (with a 212 or 224cc) although I feel way more comfortable riding side streets with it whereas the mega moto 212 I feel like I'll always be worried about cops.

I might actually get both and keep a stock 212 on the smaller one and maybe a silencer for side streets and the mega moto 212 or 224 stage 1 mostly for trails, but really not trying to do get two.



Mega Moto 212cc
supposed overall
64" x 32.50 x 36.00




ct200u
I prefer front shocks and can add for about $150 but don't really wanna raise the cost up.
supposed overall dimensions:
57''L x 26.5''W x 38''H


Mega Moto 80/105 :
I can't find dimensions for but from videos looks smaller than I want.
For just $10 more I'd get the one with shocks but not sure if the other having a clutch and chain makes sense and then adding the suspension.

Trailmaster Storm 200
overall
51.2 x 25.6 x 35.4


coleman bt200x
overall
60 x 25.5 x 38



80/105 frame I can not find any info on overall length, any help?






despite such a small difference between these which I originally didn't realize (except likely the 80/105), I thought MM212 was way bigger, but still it looks so much like a chopper than a BT200X or CT200U I'd feel more comfortable riding on side streets with, but,,,, the 212 frame is great deal and upgrades already included.
 
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