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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

When I try to kick start my Daytona Anima 4V 150F about 50% of the time the kick starter slips and you can hear it grinding.

I figured the shear gear had died so I have ordered a new kick starter assembly however, I was wondering how hard it is to install? Do I have to split the case or can I just remove a side cover? I checked on the forums for an answer but I couldn't find any.

Also I ordered the decomp kit and will put that in at the same time.

Cheers,

vanq
 

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I would take the basket off as well and make sure it didn't break any teeth off there or the starter gear
 
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^ have seen a couple of the basket teeth worn on the very outside like they hit the cases and ive also seen three teeth missing in one spot on a basket. so id also remove the basket
 

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Hi all,

When I try to kick start my Daytona Anima 4V 150F about 50% of the time the kick starter slips and you can hear it grinding.

I figured the shear gear had died so I have ordered a new kick starter assembly however, I was wondering how hard it is to install? Do I have to split the case or can I just remove a side cover? I checked on the forums for an answer but I couldn't find any.

Also I ordered the decomp kit and will put that in at the same time.

Cheers,

vanq
Vang,

No you technically do not have to split the cases. However it's not a bad idea due to fragments from the busted gears could be floating around in the trans gears, shift forks, shift drum etc...

The process is pretty simple. Tools needed to the job go as following

*8mm socket and ratchet
*impact and clutch nut socket http://tboltusa.com/store/size-clutch-tool-p-525.html
*17mm socket and ratchet
*snap ring pliers
*10mm socket and ratchet

the how to:

1.) Break 17mm drain plug loose and drain oil

2.) Remove 8mm bolts on clutch cover then remove clutch cover

3.) Remove 10mm bolts that hold clutch springs. Upon removing 10mm bolts remove springs and throw out bearing plate. You now see the clutch nut. I don't recall with the daytona clutch. But some of the pitbike clutches you can remove the throwout bearing and get the socket in there to remove clutch nut. This route you won't have to remove clutch springs. But if memory serves a lot of the clutch sockets are to big to fit.

4.) Either way the next step is to impact the clutch nut off. You will then remove basket. The daytona anima basket has a gear that slides into the back of the basket that turns the basket when it is kicked. You will want to inspect this gear as well as the big gear that is attached to the clutch basket. The anima baskets tend to wobble and sheer clutch basket teeth.

5.) You then will use the snap ring pliers and remove the idler kickstart gear. Again upon removing you want to inspect this for failure

6.) The shaft the kickstart is bolted to. This runs through both halfs of the cases. You can either unload the spring and remove whole shaft for inspection. Or again using snap ring pliers remove the snap ring then remove the gear that mates with the idler gear and inspect the teeth for failure.

And that my friend is the process in a nut shell
 

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Wouldn't be a bad idea to throw a decomp cam in it as well.Most likely you broke the gear behind the clutch basket.But it you need to replace both starter gears to be safe.. As the smaller gear is meant to break but the broken teeth can damage the main starter gear..If not caught you'll replace it again within a few kicks...plus always should start off by kicking the bike when motor is at top dead center with no compression resistance....Will save your starter gears in this motor for sure. TO do this, First do a few slow pushing kicks to get the fuel flowing...Then Finding that top dead center as you slowly kick downward until your kicker clicks your peg with no resistance ..Bring that kicker up only 1/2 they way to top..(A tuned motor only needs a 1/2 kick to fire up)..Do this By bringing up your kick lever only to even with peg..this way if that 150 4v kicks back you've got time to save the gear by slipping foot off the lever without breaking those starter gears been there done that on the 150 4v and so has every other racer in Mo state series...I ended up solving all starting problems on starting issues on the 4v motors..I did the 190 stroker conversion with the decomp cam etc on one of my bikes..What I found was funny was that the 150 4v motor had the exact same decomp cam as the 190, but the 150 cam was lacking finishing pin to make it a 150 4v with decomp cam..LOL..go figure..Guess they new there was a problem so they wanted you to buy the next big thing 190? Both great motors but could should of finished the 150 4v off right saving a lot of head aches for a lot of people..Remember the decomp cam works when its rotating slowly. releasing the valve of trapped compression.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi all,

I pulled the clutch cover off yesterday and found no broken teeth on the clutch basket or the starter gears. The only sign of slipping that I could see was on the sliding gear which had very slight wear on the teeth.

I am so confused though, the kick starter was slipping really badly but nothing inside is that badly damaged or worn.

I have a new kick starter assembly however, I cant get the old one out. The hole that the sliding gear sits in is to small for the thing the spring hooks onto to pull through. I can see how to get it out without splitting the cases.

Sorry I should have taken some photos, I'll see if I can today.

Am I missing something? I also tried to just replace the sliding gear but even with the cir-clip removed it wont slide over the shaft.

Thanks for all the help guys!



Vang,

No you technically do not have to split the cases. However it's not a bad idea due to fragments from the busted gears could be floating around in the trans gears, shift forks, shift drum etc...

The process is pretty simple. Tools needed to the job go as following

*8mm socket and ratchet
*impact and clutch nut socket 2 Size Clutch Tool - Pit Bike Engine Parts - CLUTCH KITS - WHS-2274 - TBolt USA, LLC
*17mm socket and ratchet
*snap ring pliers
*10mm socket and ratchet

the how to:

1.) Break 17mm drain plug loose and drain oil

2.) Remove 8mm bolts on clutch cover then remove clutch cover

3.) Remove 10mm bolts that hold clutch springs. Upon removing 10mm bolts remove springs and throw out bearing plate. You now see the clutch nut. I don't recall with the daytona clutch. But some of the pitbike clutches you can remove the throwout bearing and get the socket in there to remove clutch nut. This route you won't have to remove clutch springs. But if memory serves a lot of the clutch sockets are to big to fit.

4.) Either way the next step is to impact the clutch nut off. You will then remove basket. The daytona anima basket has a gear that slides into the back of the basket that turns the basket when it is kicked. You will want to inspect this gear as well as the big gear that is attached to the clutch basket. The anima baskets tend to wobble and sheer clutch basket teeth.

5.) You then will use the snap ring pliers and remove the idler kickstart gear. Again upon removing you want to inspect this for failure

6.) The shaft the kickstart is bolted to. This runs through both halfs of the cases. You can either unload the spring and remove whole shaft for inspection. Or again using snap ring pliers remove the snap ring then remove the gear that mates with the idler gear and inspect the teeth for failure.

And that my friend is the process in a nut shell
 

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hunting down the tooth

no slop on the basket? so the gear with the splines that locks into the basket broke a tooth

You'll find that tooth most likely either right at the bottom of case (right side) ..If you can't see it lean the bike to the left side, poor a smig of oil in bottom of crack to flush tooth to left side and open the drain bolt catch that is under the shift lever if it doesn't fall out it, fish around there you'll get it..
I had a tooth spin around the clutch basket and punctured the top side engine case..Thats when I decided to do it up with the stroker conversion..IN my case it broke a gear but started then while in a moto it broke another I assume and spun the broken teeth..It felt as if My cloth was slipping but it was the lack of teeth which was causing the bike to jump..
I also suggest to when puing oil in it run it for few min to flush system and re change the oil and oil filter..Make sure when removing the clutch basket that you put the washers back in order (do not forget the locking washer that slides on then you turn it to lock it behind the spline.Major mistake in people forgetting that washer or doing it right then when bike is back together it will start up but clutch basket will not engage..
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You'll find that tooth most likely either right at the bottom of case (right side) ..If you can't see it lean the bike to the left side, poor a smig of oil in bottom of crack to flush tooth to left side and open the drain bolt catch that is under the shift lever if it doesn't fall out it, fish around there you'll get it..
I had a tooth spin around the clutch basket and punctured the top side engine case..Thats when I decided to do it up with the stroker conversion..IN my case it broke a gear but started then while in a moto it broke another I assume and spun the broken teeth..It felt as if My cloth was slipping but it was the lack of teeth which was causing the bike to jump..
I also suggest to when puing oil in it run it for few min to flush system and re change the oil and oil filter..Make sure when removing the clutch basket that you put the washers back in order (do not forget the locking washer that slides on then you turn it to lock it behind the spline.Major mistake in people forgetting that washer or doing it right then when bike is back together it will start up but clutch basket will not engage..
Yeah I cant see the tooth, is it possible it could have come out in draining the oil? I will check the oil strainer as well. Thanks mate!
 

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Its posible but how long has this been doing the slipping? Was it a first time thing and stopped to fix the problem? Or was it a on going issue?
If tooth is not in the last oil change most likely it did work its way over to other side. (IF it is a first time issue)
I had 4 teeth sheer off lol. 1st gear on starting gate, bike started though then gate dropped and the rest during moto pulled off and saved motor..all metal and teeth either caught by oil screen or oil filter right away.. 2nd time and other 4valves have all either dropped down in case or found in basket..There is a small wall between oil drain hole which doesn't allow foreign objects to fall through if I'm not mistaking. its a pretty good design motor..(The yz450's I have hopped up in past have the almost exact same layout giving it was water cooled also)..but anyway I flushed motor oil like three times within minutes to insure metal fragments weren't left behind. Its a easy fix..you can get away with just changing the broken gear but do inspect the secondary starter gear to see if there was any damage most likely not but if there is any rough edges on a tooth you can smooth them w/ dremmel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I only just got the bike and I am not sure if it was me kicking it incorrectly or the previous owner that sheared the gear. It only did it about half the time and I haven't even taken it out for a proper ride.

I haven't checked the oil screen or filter yet so hopefully it is sitting in 1 of those.

Also has anyone fitted the De-Comp Cam? Any tricks to that? Is it fairly straight forward?

Its posible but how long has this been doing the slipping? Was it a first time thing and stopped to fix the problem? Or was it a on going issue?
If tooth is not in the last oil change most likely it did work its way over to other side. (IF it is a first time issue)
I had 4 teeth sheer off lol. 1st gear on starting gate, bike started though then gate dropped and the rest during moto pulled off and saved motor..all metal and teeth either caught by oil screen or oil filter right away.. 2nd time and other 4valves have all either dropped down in case or found in basket..There is a small wall between oil drain hole which doesn't allow foreign objects to fall through if I'm not mistaking. its a pretty good design motor..(The yz450's I have hopped up in past have the almost exact same layout giving it was water cooled also)..but anyway I flushed motor oil like three times within minutes to insure metal fragments weren't left behind. Its a easy fix..you can get away with just changing the broken gear but do inspect the secondary starter gear to see if there was any damage most likely not but if there is any rough edges on a tooth you can smooth them w/ dremmel.
 

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The newer ones were fitted with a decomp cam. Easy way it to pull the head cover off (4 8mm bolts) or the engine number under the flywheel cover. Think they say flx or fdx
 

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I only just got the bike and I am not sure if it was me kicking it incorrectly or the previous owner that sheared the gear. It only did it about half the time and I haven't even taken it out for a proper ride.

I haven't checked the oil screen or filter yet so hopefully it is sitting in 1 of those.

Also has anyone fitted the De-Comp Cam? Any tricks to that? Is it fairly straight forward?
Straight forward easy fix..Just make sure you set the timing right again on flywheel..will help you from braking starter gears..check my earlier thread..I put one in as well but while apart I figured why not change it to a 190 stroker so I did that too. but what sucks is that piranha (at least in my bike)had the de-comp cam in the 150 4v but just lacking the mechanisms to finish the job..it was all there but with no pin for pushing valve WTF..? Same exact cam in the 190 yet spring and pin missing? Guess they use what ever parts they have to put them together..lol..My model was a brand new 2013 when I had to brake it down with only 5hrs on it and build it up right..Good luck let me know how it goes..Since then I just run the 190's..but the stroker could boogy..
PS only one screen catch and how much did you give for the bike?
 

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? Daytona? Love the motors, Yet I know for a fact something was wrong with mine from getgo! not only myself but two other people well known with pit bikes and motors went to start my new 150 daytona (at the time) and same thing happened to them on my bike.broke the gear. So no help through piranha. I knew it had to be fixed so i fixed issue. I put the decomp 190 stroker in it. Went through entire motor with 4/5 hrs tops..Did this help answer question? Kinda confused with question lol? I was only talking about daytona 150 and 190 4 valves?
 

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Guess they use what ever parts they have to put them together??? Piranha or daytona. The decomp cams come in a bag regardless with all the necessary parts.
 
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