[fatcaaat]

Rather than tell you what I think it is, I'd rather you guys chime in to provide your thoughts. That way, I can confirm.

The motor is my 176cc Honda Nice with a Takegawa 2V roller rocker head. I found these when I removed my lower rocker cover on the head.

What do you think these are?

 

[geezer]

Looks like needle bearings. I don't think with what you know you need to ask. I hope it's not too serious.

 

[geezer]

Hopefully you just need new rockers. Are they the same with?

 

[fatcaaat]

Anyone have any pictures of one of these letting go? I looked all over the net and did not find any.

 

[geezer]

Are the needles the same with as the rockers ? It seems like they had to come from there

 

[fatcaaat]

probably the same width. opened up the top side and there is a ton of lash. Seems like the roller wheel side blew apart. good thing it happened while at idle and i shut it off immediately. My guess is that I have no other damage...other than the crazy money it costs for the gaskets and stuff to replace it.

 

[geezer]

I would try to count the rollers and see if they add up to how many should be there. I doubt any got to the bottom end but you never know

 

[ShapeShifter]

HHmmm...

 

[scoot505]

For sure looks like needle bearings but if they came out of a bad bearing they would probably be more chewed up than that... must have shut it down quick.

 

[fatcaaat]

I finally got it all apart. There are supposed to be 16 of these needle bearings in there. When I pulled the thing apart, the end of the rocker was still intact, but the little needle bearings were all missing. I tore the complete motor down...no needle bearings in the motor or in the oil. WTF?

 

[sh0rtlife]

could have been ground up..or stuck somewhere.....you can flush out the cases with karoseen

 

[ShapeShifter]

What do the rings look like? I guess it's possible that one or two could have migrated out the exhaust, but all of them?

 

[xr1million]

No way they could make it out the exhaust unless there was SERIOUS damage to the piston! !

Was the oil glittery? How's the oil pump internals look?

 

[fatcaaat]

The piston and rings for a 2000 mile street motor look almost brand new. The oil was only a little glittery which was probably from the aluminum that got smooshed up and ground a little bit on the rocker end. I have a magnetic oil plug and only a little bit of normal stuff there. I did recover one more, so that makes 3 found out of 16. If you think about it, there is no way it could go out the exhaust...there is no way to get it into the combustion chamber unless it passes the rings...and they did not pass the rings.

I have now completed the the thorough cleaning of motor and I can safely say I will not be finding any more of these things.

The motor is completely apart at this stage, so no flushing needs to happen. The motor is clean as a bean on the inside other than some slighly dirty oil. No residue so you can clearly see them. I even pulled the seals and looked in there. I pulled the clutch pack apart to make sure. They are not around.

Oil pump is fine, everything fine...I put parts in a box and blew them out with shop air...nothing. I have all the oil and all the carb cleaning solution I blasted into it. They are simply gone.

But here's the kicker...when it let loose, it was idling, and I turned it off within seconds of hearing the ticking caused by that slapping rocker. Seconds...they did not get ground up in seconds.

I wonder, just for a moment, if they got tossed around on the last oil change and dropped without me noticing. Then I ran it around a little bit and it just blew. But really, don't you think I would have found more?

 

[sh0rtlife]

you indeed should have found more..i question at this point if "some" of them were lost on the oil change but that the bearing was perhaps missing some on instalation....cause yeah you should have found ALOT more..at minimum id say you should have found half.......lets say the bearing dropped all of them but 3 all oposite from eachother..it would function and not make a peep but would wear out fast..and thats what its sounding like happened

is there any reminants up in the valve springs?

 

[fatcaaat]

Nothing up in the valve springs...I disassembled. Other than some ground up aluminum from the rocker smashing into the cam it's clean. No other magnetic particles. I'm starting to wonder myself...were there only 3 needles in that rocker to start with? Did takegawa screw up somehow?

 

[sh0rtlife]

i could only see a small percentage of them coming out in an oil change...its not like they float...or are likely to "flush" out on a change maybe a couple say less than 5 unless they were all wadded up on that mirical magnetic drain plug holding all of them only to let go before removeal and then fall out in the oil...but when you disposed of said oil id bet you would have seen them in that case.....it really sounds like someone somewhere oopsed the bearing..but there is no way to prove it let alone know...

the fact you tore thru every inch...says that they are long since gone or never existed in the first place


last thought tho..do you have an oil cooler?...if so try flushing it see what you get out of it...you might get some ground up powder or shake it and hear chunks?...just thinking out loud

 

[nielspbr]

Still lying in the bottom of the head, or stuck in the oil return of the cylinder? (unlikely seen their size, but you never now.)