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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
Look AT THAT!! wow, just wow!! :oops::eek:
If I needed more confirmation that this bike was rescued from a swamp. Super corroded stud!
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High mileage clue? Barely! Roller shaft.
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I was measuring the stroke here. I think I measured 51mm something like that.
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Pitted case, 2 deep traces of hack saw in the rod. Weird. Why??:unsure:
The rod is marked GB5, I noticed some Honda part numbers have GB5 as well in the sequence. It must not be a coincidence but I don't know what to make of it. Can anybody school me? Also most heads are marked E22. What does it stands for? Is it a piston dome standard ? ( flat dome from what I could piece together, do they also all have the same valve sizes?) Are there any other cylinder head standard numbers besides E22?


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Damn!! No wonder these Honda bikes have gain fame from their reliability and longevity. Look at the groove left by the shaft seal! This transmission went to the Moon and back ! Still Nachi Japan bearings.
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Some teeth are starting to show some pitting ....
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Discussion Starter #22
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I see a production stamp 3-20. Probably 20th week 1973 which would match the dating.
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Some rough stuff !!
I'm gonna have them bored out at 56mm for a 52mm replacement cylinder I got on Aliexpress , the current 97cc jug got fit in there without modifying the cases. My guess is they put the cylinder skirt in a lathe instead.
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Damn I wish I didn't have the original SS50 cases, I would go with new cases for my build. I feel obliged to keep it matching numbers if I can call it like that lol!!
Anyway, I wanted to build a 108cc stroker with a 52cc cylinder but the more I read about it, the more confusing it is getting. I finally understood the high dome piston ( old style higher dome piston) high compression denomination reading through DrATV's muddy website. He switches back and forth between different appellations for the same part making it very confusing for the profane. The crankshaft stroke and rod lengths was well explained so that was rather helpful. I wanted to piece a kit together myself but he's out of stock of some important components, that I researched more about cylinder heads and on and on and on. I came to the conclusion I wasn't gonna have a good kit pieced together by myself for the simple reason performance heads are not sold widely by themselves.
I don't know which 51mm stroke crank to use that would fit, CDI 12V crank snout etc..., 52mm high dome piston only sold by itself by DrATV .
I need to buy me a stroker kit, but for the difference in money, I might as well get the 117cc stroker kit #6. 54mm high dome piston, 51mm stroker crankshaft. I hope my 56mm bored out cases will still do, if not I will have to bore them again.
 

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Discussion Starter #23 (Edited)
For posterity, the $31.30 52mm aluminum cylinder and piston I got from Aliexpress and that I probably won't be using:
2 fins broken on one corner.
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Piston rings from GY6 and C110
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L110 : probably for 110CC
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I also got this performance camshaft, I don't have any cam values to verify anything anyway, it might as well be a stock Lifan camshaft copy. The bearings felt super cheap and dry, not smooth at all. If I were to use this cam I would definitely upgrade them.
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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
At $12.32 with the sprocket with shipping , it was an ok gamble
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Oh I found a couple more pics , I'm still missing the carburetor pics when I opened it somehow . The brand was on the packaging I found mentioned earlier, used as a gas tank spacer.
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Interesting clutch bushing, this is the new Chinese part, made out of steel instead of bronze . Notice the weird plugged hole in the middle.
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The Chinese CDI before I worked on it, wires were frayed going through the rubber grommet so I cleaned that up and pulled an extra wire for the neutral switch.
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Neutral switched glued in, no wires, no holding tab. I also ordered a replacement plug.
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The day I picked up the bike
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I'm up to date on the work so far. Just gotta get that stroker kit ordered now. It's been a year now.....

Aloha!
 

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GB5, sounds like a rod for a nt90 engine, also explains the cdi, 12V cone. Could the stroke be 49.5mm?? (goes together with a 69mm high jug)
Together with a 52.4 cilinder that makes 106cc (also called a 110..)
 

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Discussion Starter #26
GB5, sounds like a rod for a nt90 engine, also explains the cdi, 12V cone. Could the stroke be 49.5mm?? (goes together with a 69mm high jug)
Together with a 52.4 cilinder that makes 106cc (also called a 110..)
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Honestly that was a year ago, maybe it had less stroke? I would have to measure again.
So they swapped the rod into a generic Chinese CDI crank or the whole crank from a NT90 you think? It looks like the crank got worked on, probably out of balance too...

Aloha!

EDIT: is it a typo for NT90 ? I cannot find anything online NT90 Honda...
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
The 85cc 12v(nt/cdi) cub 90 or c90. Not the 89cc 6V(ot/points) c90.

And yes, that same crank/rod configuration is used in de chinese 90/100/110 engines only with other numbers.
Oh, ok I thought NT90 was a Honda bike model, hahaha!
I hadn't seen these NT and OT appellations yet.
Thanks for the clarification about the crank, I didn't know they had a 51mm stroke. It's tough navigating between so many parts and combinations throughout the Honda family, add the Chinese parts in the mix and it's uncharted territory lol!
I found 3 types of 4speed transmissions out there for example since I can talk about that. Different shaft tips. I received a wrong one last year that was almost a match but the tips were too small and one offset of gears didn't match.
Another one looks identical as above but has an extra collar machined on one of the shafts so on pictures it's easy to see.

The 4 speed transmission that fits our cases is from an older version of a Jialing JH70 and the like, most manufacturers name the parts with a number combination I finally ran across.
L3 xx. XX is the actual part package supplied, as they don't seem to detail just one gear for example.
Here, a 4 speed JH70 transmission is L3 42. I will confirm it's a match when I get mine in a solid month from now. The transmission I got must be an L3 43. Same bike just different years of production.
L3 34 is the cylinder head assembly, L3 25 the tensioner rollers etc...
With these numbers, most of them pop up and often on eBay too, same seller, Nihao Motor.

A bunch of engines have names too, 1P39FMA , 1P47FMC etc... 1P54FMI ( Lifan 125cc)
I wish I could find an exhaustive list, these numbers help big time when shopping around for parts.

Aloha !
 

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The 39, 47, and 54 in those engine prefix numbers are usually indicative of the bore size -
39mm = 49cc
47mm = 72cc
54mm = 123cc (with a 54mm crank - also known as a square bore 54 x 54)
 

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Discussion Starter #30
The 39, 47, and 54 in those engine prefix numbers are usually indicative of the bore size -
39mm = 49cc
47mm = 72cc
54mm = 123cc (with a 54mm crank - also known as a square bore 54 x 54)
Eh, of course!! So obvious now you pointed it out!

We say something in French: better one who knows than 2 who don't know ( at work trying to figure out something).
 

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Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
Alright!

It's gonna be a little slow from now on, piling on small parts and saving money for the 117cc stroker kit,oil pump and billet clutch basket and HD springs.

The good news is I find a decentl clutch housing in Australia at a good price. I'm not gonna restore anything paintwise so worn looking parts are perfect for me.

I found all NOS rollers for the cam chain and for various other bits like the gear change drum roller and arm, timing roller arm, piston, springs etc... The kind of stuff I don't want to use Chinese stuff bc I don't have experience with their longevity.

A lot more reading as well as I have been obsessed with improving the front brake while keeping it stock looking.
I found out The Yamaha FS1 or Fizzy had one fork set up that can be mounted from a pic I found on FourStrokeBarn. I think the RD50 is the same bike too, but there's also a Derbi RD50...
I didn't want to mount a cable caliper and disc setup from a CB125 or a CB50 ( I had no idea they existed in 50cc!! Very cool!) they suck anyway. Shipping would be a big financial issue as well
I then looked into CR80 and XR100 disc wheels but the hub is too ugly. Treatland has a decent looking wheel listed from a Puch Tomos Streetmate in 17" that would have worked as is without swapping out my rim. I just found out mine isn't 1.6" wide too, I thought it was 1.4".
I had ran across HondaClassicRacing blogspot from Roland Groenendijk- GRP ( friend's with Niels apparently :) ) some time ago looking into improving the drum brakes. From one thing to another I ended up on his FB page and savoured every picture posted there and decided drum brakes will do when I saw he snapped a forked with his. The guy has some mad skills and great taste! He even casts his own parts. He offers some of his products for purchase, I highly recommend to pay him a visit on his page.
For the vintage look, it's perfect, I saw him doing some double leading drum and hub swaps, I'm sold!
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I asked him a couple tips and he kindly responded and advised me on using a hub from a CB175. It looks like a CL175 might work too looking at pics online.
Some machining required but I can figure that out easily or swap the entire fork with some mods.
My fork tubes are 22mm, Chinese shit. I will probably have to swap the entire fork for the 31mm tubes of the CB175 and the like. The SS50 , CT90 and same family of forks were 27mm from what I gathered. 25mm and 27mm found aftermarket.
I'm familiar with these forks, I had an old CB125 fork on my 1966 Motoconfort moped in France back in 1997 and I made a mix of forks for my CG125 ( Brazilian model from the late 80's) with the CB125T (cable caliper set up style wheel) onto the last CB125T with hydraulic brakes. I had to get the triple tees machined and some reducers for the wheel axle made and I candidly mounted the hydraulic rotor onto the non hydraulic brake style wheel. I didn't make a centering ring and it took me a few trials to get it to spin true on the mounting holes that were too big, making sure the bolts were in contact of the holes towards the rear. Super kid budget....
I still have the CG125 in storage in France, it had over 100 000 Km's on the original engine!! Unbelievable !!
I've always missed my 125 to zip around here, the SS50 will fill that need, and saving on gas to go to my shop daily :)

Looking for hydraulics I found this pic on the SS50 Vietnam FB page.
Home made brackets which I had considered making. Very few pics of homemade caliper brackets like that online, this one looked good.
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I also found a listing for CDI stator covers on that page that have the same sticker as Mr G.'s bike. It looks like they improved the cutting method :ROFLMAO: Edges suggest cuts have been done on some other pics I saw, definitely not cast like that One more proof the bikes were from Vietnam .
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I can only imagine how mine looked like before restoration when I look at this one. YouTube has plethora of videos of local restorations. At least it's a full disclaimer on them and some of them do contain interesting approaches with the local means.

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Roland also said my engine caseS might not be original but didn't say why. I didn't want to bother him anymore so I didn't insist in the reason.
Here's a C50 case I believe for comparison sake.
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Mine below:
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I also found this cool info about Honda part numbers:

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Some helpful list of stem bearings for Honda :

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Busted...
Yes I know Ronald, he lives around 6 miles from where I live.


edit: SSH200 is the version for all the light honda's I know of around here. (Z/ST/CT/SS/CD/CL/SL/ape...)
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Some little updates!

I ordered a bunch of stuff off ebay.

1972 CB175 fork assembly
1970 CB175 brake plate ( dual cam)
1971 CB175 hub with speedo drive and seemingly recent bearings
CL175 headlight bucket
1968 CL CB175 speedometer
NOS grey speedo cable, wheel seals
So far with getting the hub machined round to clean the rust and true it, I`m in $435 , and I still have to get a brake cable and fork bearings.... Not a cheap mod` for sure. I can`t believe I was able to get the fork to Hawai`i for $135 shipping included :whistle: I bought that first before committing to the small parts.

Some measurements so far:
CB175 Fork tube spacing is 155mm from tube to tube ( center to center)
Available space 117mm at the wheel axle.
I think the tube are diameter 31mm but I haven`t measured yet. I will edit this message the day I get to it.
650mm from wheel axle to fork tube top bolt, under head.
145mm bearing race to bearing race.
500mm from wheel axle to bottom bearing race.

Unknown origin SS50 fork, I haven`t taken it apart yet...
Fork tube spacing is 140 mm from tube to tube ( center to center)
Available space 110mm at the wheel axle ( approximately).
I think the tube are diameter 23mm but I haven`t measured yet. I will edit this message the day I get to it.
655mm from wheel axle to fork tube top bolt, under head. A little taller than the CB175 fork.
??? mm bearing race to bearing race. Will edit when I get to it.
455 mm from wheel axle to bottom of head tube.

The head tube of the SS50 seems like way too tall, I think I`m gonna run into some issues here :rolleyes:
Looks like it used to be orange but I like the faded shitty black that`s on it, it will match the bike 😆

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Don`t mind the stuff to hold the brake lever, it was to check out the brake pattern in the hub.
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The hub paid a visit to the machine shop. It was rusty... Now it`s clean and round.That should be a good improvement. 36 spokes as well.

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This headlight bucket should be perfect to be period correct looking :) I couldn`t use the smaller SS50 headlight without looking ridiculously small between the fork tubes, I would have needed a 1/2" spacer on each side.
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Of course the lens is of a CL175 like the headlight bucket but the notch doesn`t match the spring location. Thanks Honda for messing up standardization....

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Alright, preventative speedometer maintenance, cleaning, oiling and zero out. I gotta find the little colored lenses, they`re baked to death and were loose in there!!
I notched the chrome bezel with a Dremel to pry it open easily without messing it up. It was starting to be messy with screwdriver and smooth jaw pliers.


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The needle is just pressed onto the shaft, go negative speed to loosen it a couple turns and pop it off the shaft. The pick up bowl has a solid stop to it, it`s safe to do so.
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The red lens is the far left one for Hi Beam, it doesn`t seem original and no light goes through it, but there`s a light bulb below it, weird. Center is green for neutral and right is orange for blinkers
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These fiber gaskets go in the socket hole from the speedo side, they were kinda dry and one came out with the light bulb. I soften it with Meguiars Supreme shine and installed it back in.
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Discussion Starter #37
The plate below the glass with MPH written on it has a fiber gasket as well. I removed the plate to polish the glass with diamond polish, it had gotten water damaged.
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The chrome bezel ( actually I think it`s stainless steel) has a foam rubber gasket, kinda like a neoprene gasket but super closed cells.
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Super shiny brah!
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Gasket before cleaning
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Tampering with the odometer 🤐

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Too many miles!!
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Get the 2 copper fork clips out ( there`s 2 but it might be depending on your speedo, I feel like it depends on the play/thickness needed)
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Be careful to not loose the brass thrust bearing that goes in the support bore, it is seen here moved inward on the shaft but needs to be on the tip of the shaft, the clips go behind it.
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Discussion Starter #38
Opposite end
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If you`re brave you can take the C-clip out to realign the numbers easily. I didn`t, because the metal tabs between the gears are like ratchets, they are meant to work with onward numbers revolution. You can zero out everything easily by either holding a set of gears and tabs and spin one direction or another to gain time. It is a brain teaser going one way or another to obtain what you want. Rubix cube style.
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Polished and back together.
I oiled the shafts and greased the gears.
Since I`m running a 17" wheel instead of a 18" wheel, there will be a roughly 6% positive difference in speed reading. I cheated a hair on the needle to lower it a bit, it`s a hair before zero now. That`ll help a bit, but I don`t care much though, I`ll live with it.
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Discussion Starter #39
I`m soaking the rubber boots for the light sockets with Meguiars Supreme Shine, they are dry rotted....
I will re assemble the housing later, still gotta find a good solution for the indicator lenses
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The dual cam brake shoes pic didn`t make it earlier
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