Planet Minis

sparky3009 · 10-05-2008, 07:16 PM

I got a agb 21g off craigslist a little bit ago and have been ripping around on my trails and got a flat so I hopped on the comp and started lookin for engine upgrades til the honda dealer opens tomorrow morning.

Anywho, I saw the g1 and g2 cams work in lifan 125's and they got high comp pistons and all but I noticed the badge dealy on my engine says Ducar, and I thought it was a Lifan.

It also says 124cm3, so it's not a 125...? So is Ducar the same as Lifan or is it another knock off? and are there high comp pistons for it? and will g1/g2 cams work?

Sorry for spamming with questions, but I got a lot of Q's. Thanks

RIDE~4~LIFE · 10-06-2008, 04:17 AM

i think you will find every bike pritty much is 1cc under what they say. and i think you could probly get a 140 kit for them

firepower354 · 10-06-2008, 04:28 AM

It could have a 13 or 14mm wristpin, and a 68 or 73mm long cam. Parts come quick enough, I'd tear it down to verify.

Make sure it shifts good before you spend any money. Adding horsepower won't make the trans any better.

sparky3009 · 10-06-2008, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firepower354

Make sure it shifts good before you spend any money. Adding horsepower won't make the trans any better.

I feel ya there buddy. I might get a true honda motor bored to 88cc, but I was just wondering if high comp pistons were available for this beast. I don't know if I want to tear it down yet or not.... it might be getting a little weak, but it still has decent power and shifts smooth.

Motodad · 10-06-2008, 09:54 AM

I have an AGB 29. Dr ATV sells a high comp piston that will work, the valve pockets need to be cut a little bigger though. I am not sure what the comp ratio is but the clutch drags when kick starting it on the compression stroke. Also, a honda cam fits this head. I used the DR ATV Mega (Z40) cam. Major power difference with this setup.

piston
BIG_BORE_KIT 54MM_BORE_KIT CT90_ATC90_ST90 CL/SL/S90_CM91 (90+4MM)

cam
BCI_MEGA_CAM (formally_Z40) CRF50_CRF70 XR50/70 RACING_TRX90'S MOST LIFAN_120CC LIFAN_138CC

sparky3009 · 10-06-2008, 11:53 AM

Thanks for the help... got another Q...

Will this just bolt straight in? I know when you to a piston, you also need to do a new cylinder, so would it be necessary to get a new head?

Also, I didn't really see a whole lot of engines with a big bore and short stroke... I mainly just use my pit bike for wheelies and sometimes a little trail beating so I would personally rather have as much torque as possible. Are their any engines with big bore/short stroke?

And what's the stock bore/stroke on a ducar 124? I can't find specs on ANY lifan engines online. If someone could link me with some that would be awesome!

Also, that cam seems sweet, I might have to do that!

themountain · 10-06-2008, 01:55 PM

you got a 54x54 stroke and bore and I am afraid the cam won´t work in it ...you have to switch the bearings!..give AHP a call ..they might hook you up with the right stuff!

Motodad · 10-06-2008, 02:25 PM

The piston will bolt right into the stock cylinder. Like I said though you will have to open up the valve pockets on the piston or the valves will hit the top of the piston especially with the higher lift cam. The cam WILL work in that head, just use the bearings from the cam you are taking out. If I remember right you only have to change one of them.

sparky3009 · 10-06-2008, 02:35 PM

Thank you guys SO much. You have no idea how helpful you are. I will probably do those upgrades soon, but right now I need to get a pickup so I can haul my beast around... the Saturn just dont cut it :\

cparty27 · 10-07-2008, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motodad

I have an AGB 29. Dr ATV sells a high comp piston that will work, the valve pockets need to be cut a little bigger though. I am not sure what the comp ratio is but the clutch drags when kick starting it on the compression stroke. Also, a honda cam fits this head. I used the DR ATV Mega (Z40) cam. Major power difference with this setup.

piston
BIG_BORE_KIT 54MM_BORE_KIT CT90_ATC90_ST90 CL/SL/S90_CM91 (90+4MM)

cam
BCI_MEGA_CAM (formally_Z40) CRF50_CRF70 XR50/70 RACING_TRX90'S MOST LIFAN_120CC LIFAN_138CC

So this piston will bolt right in to the 54 x 54 AGB 29 motor? How much do you need to shave off the valve pockets? can you post pics or measurements? I'm curious to try this since I'm about tapped out of motor mods unless I start really messing with things. So far I've got a TB CDI, a Uni filter, a kitaco coil, an AHP race cam, and good jetting on the stock carb. Next on the list is a possible high compression piston, and headwork. I do minimoto racing so I need all the HP I can squeze out of 125cc's.

sparky3009 · 10-07-2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cparty27

So this piston will bolt right in to the 54 x 54 AGB 29 motor? How much do you need to shave off the valve pockets? can you post pics or measurements? I'm curious to try this since I'm about tapped out of motor mods unless I start really messing with things. So far I've got a TB CDI, a Uni filter, a kitaco coil, an AHP race cam, and good jetting on the stock carb. Next on the list is a possible high compression piston, and headwork. I do minimoto racing so I need all the HP I can squeze out of 125cc's.

Theres pictures in the link. I think it's the last 4, which are 'installation instructions' and they circle in red what needs to be shaved.

cparty27 · 10-07-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparky3009

Theres pictures in the link. I think it's the last 4, which are 'installation instructions' and they circle in red what needs to be shaved.

I saw some pics on Dr. ATV but that was to get a different piston to fit into a case, not how much / where to remove material from the valve dishes on the piston for valve clearance.

Motodad · 10-07-2008, 09:41 AM

I didn't take any pics when I did it. You will just have to clay the valve pockets to see how much you need to take off for your cam. It is no big deal to do and makes a big difference.

Blackwoodz · 10-07-2008, 03:05 PM

I would not order any parts before I actually tore it down and verify the bore, stroke and the cam length. Do not trust anything you read or hear. These clone engines are very misleading. Just verify what there and go from thater. Just like firepower said the parts arrive quick from dratv. Good luck.

Motodad · 10-07-2008, 03:26 PM

You will need the 28 tooth 2 bolt cam sprocket to go with the cam also.

cam sprocket
*28_TOOTH CAM SPROCKET FOR THE OEM HONDA TYPE BEARING CAMS (200025)

cparty27 · 10-09-2008, 10:22 AM

So does anyone know for sure what the wrist pin size is on the 54 x 54 Ducar motor? I believe its 14mm through what I've gathered, but I wanted someone whos actually measured theirs. I'd measure mine, but I just got my head all buttoned up and I don't want to take apart to check unless I have to.

Motodad · 10-09-2008, 12:14 PM

AHPminis · 10-09-2008, 12:20 PM

This cam is a drop in unit and they are selling for $49, might make your life easier, 257 lift:

We had them made when we were building Ducar engines for V Bikez about a year ago.

cparty27 · 10-09-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHPminis

This cam is a drop in unit and they are selling for $49, might make your life easier, 257 lift:

We had them made when we were building Ducar engines for V Bikez about a year ago.

I just installed this in my bike last night. I haven't fired it up yet, but just by looking at the old vs new camshaft ther was definitely a noticible difference in the intake and exhaust duration. Mark, do you have a 54mm high comp piston with a 14mm wrist pin? I'd love to drop one in, but I'd like to avoid having to clay and grind the piston if at all possible. What work did you do to the motors for V bikez? I'm curious to hear what else I can do to mine.

AHPminis · 10-09-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cparty27

I just installed this in my bike last night. I haven't fired it up yet, but just by looking at the old vs new camshaft ther was definitely a noticible difference in the intake and exhaust duration. Mark, do you have a 54mm high comp piston with a 14mm wrist pin? I'd love to drop one in, but I'd like to avoid having to clay and grind the piston if at all possible. What work did you do to the motors for V bikez? I'm curious to hear what else I can do to mine.

We had the cylinder taken out to 56mm and used an Akunar large domed piston with a ported stock (big valve) head on the Ducar along with that cam. I do not have anymore of those pistons, but you may be able to track them down.

10-05-2008, 07:16 PM	#1 (permalink)
sparky3009 PM Newbie Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6	Ducar upgrades? I got a agb 21g off craigslist a little bit ago and have been ripping around on my trails and got a flat so I hopped on the comp and started lookin for engine upgrades til the honda dealer opens tomorrow morning. Anywho, I saw the g1 and g2 cams work in lifan 125's and they got high comp pistons and all but I noticed the badge dealy on my engine says Ducar, and I thought it was a Lifan. It also says 124cm3, so it's not a 125...? So is Ducar the same as Lifan or is it another knock off? and are there high comp pistons for it? and will g1/g2 cams work? Sorry for spamming with questions, but I got a lot of Q's. Thanks

10-06-2008, 04:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
RIDE~4~LIFE 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: S.A, Australia Posts: 883	Re: Ducar upgrades? i think you will find every bike pritty much is 1cc under what they say. and i think you could probly get a 140 kit for them

10-06-2008, 04:28 AM	#3 (permalink)
firepower354 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Flint MI Posts: 6,259	Re: Ducar upgrades? It could have a 13 or 14mm wristpin, and a 68 or 73mm long cam. Parts come quick enough, I'd tear it down to verify. Make sure it shifts good before you spend any money. Adding horsepower won't make the trans any better.

10-06-2008, 09:54 AM	#5 (permalink)
Motodad 1st Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 117	Re: Ducar upgrades? I have an AGB 29. Dr ATV sells a high comp piston that will work, the valve pockets need to be cut a little bigger though. I am not sure what the comp ratio is but the clutch drags when kick starting it on the compression stroke. Also, a honda cam fits this head. I used the DR ATV Mega (Z40) cam. Major power difference with this setup. piston BIG_BORE_KIT 54MM_BORE_KIT CT90_ATC90_ST90 CL/SL/S90_CM91 (90+4MM) cam BCI_MEGA_CAM (formally_Z40) CRF50_CRF70 XR50/70 RACING_TRX90'S MOST LIFAN_120CC LIFAN_138CC

10-06-2008, 11:53 AM	#6 (permalink)
sparky3009 PM Newbie Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6	Re: Ducar upgrades? Thanks for the help... got another Q... Will this just bolt straight in? I know when you to a piston, you also need to do a new cylinder, so would it be necessary to get a new head? Also, I didn't really see a whole lot of engines with a big bore and short stroke... I mainly just use my pit bike for wheelies and sometimes a little trail beating so I would personally rather have as much torque as possible. Are their any engines with big bore/short stroke? And what's the stock bore/stroke on a ducar 124? I can't find specs on ANY lifan engines online. If someone could link me with some that would be awesome! Also, that cam seems sweet, I might have to do that! Last edited by sparky3009; 10-06-2008 at 12:01 PM.

10-06-2008, 01:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
themountain 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pico/ Azores/Portugal Posts: 1,121	Re: Ducar upgrades? you got a 54x54 stroke and bore and I am afraid the cam won´t work in it ...you have to switch the bearings!..give AHP a call ..they might hook you up with the right stuff!

10-06-2008, 02:25 PM	#8 (permalink)
Motodad 1st Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 117	Re: Ducar upgrades? The piston will bolt right into the stock cylinder. Like I said though you will have to open up the valve pockets on the piston or the valves will hit the top of the piston especially with the higher lift cam. The cam WILL work in that head, just use the bearings from the cam you are taking out. If I remember right you only have to change one of them.

10-06-2008, 02:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
sparky3009 PM Newbie Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6	Re: Ducar upgrades? Thank you guys SO much. You have no idea how helpful you are. I will probably do those upgrades soon, but right now I need to get a pickup so I can haul my beast around... the Saturn just dont cut it :\

10-07-2008, 09:41 AM	#13 (permalink)
Motodad 1st Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 117	Re: Ducar upgrades? I didn't take any pics when I did it. You will just have to clay the valve pockets to see how much you need to take off for your cam. It is no big deal to do and makes a big difference.

10-07-2008, 03:05 PM	#14 (permalink)
Blackwoodz 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: SC Michigan Posts: 265	Re: Ducar upgrades? I would not order any parts before I actually tore it down and verify the bore, stroke and the cam length. Do not trust anything you read or hear. These clone engines are very misleading. Just verify what there and go from thater. Just like firepower said the parts arrive quick from dratv. Good luck.

10-07-2008, 03:26 PM	#15 (permalink)
Motodad 1st Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 117	Re: Ducar upgrades? You will need the 28 tooth 2 bolt cam sprocket to go with the cam also. cam sprocket *28_TOOTH CAM SPROCKET FOR THE OEM HONDA TYPE BEARING CAMS (200025)

10-09-2008, 10:22 AM	#16 (permalink)
cparty27 PM Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: South Metro Atlanta Posts: 64	Re: Ducar upgrades? So does anyone know for sure what the wrist pin size is on the 54 x 54 Ducar motor? I believe its 14mm through what I've gathered, but I wanted someone whos actually measured theirs. I'd measure mine, but I just got my head all buttoned up and I don't want to take apart to check unless I have to.

10-09-2008, 12:14 PM	#17 (permalink)
Motodad 1st Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 117	Re: Ducar upgrades? 14mm

10-09-2008, 12:20 PM	#18 (permalink)
AHPminis Advertiser Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: East Coast - PA Posts: 3,940	Re: Ducar upgrades? This cam is a drop in unit and they are selling for $49, might make your life easier, 257 lift: We had them made when we were building Ducar engines for V Bikez about a year ago. __________________ Website - www.ahpminis.com Email - mark@ahpminis.com AHP - TB -Sano - RB - Kitaco - iShock - Fox - Marzocchi - F50s - Utopia - Takegawa - Crower

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