Planet Minis

cparty27 · 07-31-2007, 11:17 AM

I recently picked up an Orion AGB-29. The intent it to teach my GF how to ride in the backyard and then put street tires on it so I can take it to the local kart track for their $25 trackdays. The bike currently has a 2.5 x 14 tire in the front and a 3.00 x 12 tire in the rear. I was hoping it would be as simple as grabbing a 12" wheel and some tires off of ebay just to scoot around and have fun, but it looks like thats not the case. What do you recommend for switching from dirt tires to street. Can I fin a 14" street tire that will fit, and be halfway decent at the kart track? Should I try to swap to a 12" rim? I'm trying to do this on the cheap. Trackdays are expensive enough on my big bike and I was hoping this would be inexpensive.

PitBoy · 07-31-2007, 11:24 AM

I'm sure Orion makes a 12" front wheel. You should be able to just pick one up from them directly and swap it out. Shouldn't be that difficult. Worst case, you buy a 12" ring and some heavy duty spoke and lace up the 12" ring to your existing hub. Either way, a few hours work and you're done.

Here's a link to their website directly. You can call them and ask about just buying a new wheel....

Orion Pit Bikes

711ismy# · 07-31-2007, 12:01 PM

Oh its that difficult! Me and RyanNJ are going through this right now and it has been no picnic. I took one route where I bought a set of pitster wheels and had to un-lace them and use my AGB rear spokes for the rear and the pitster rear spokes for the front with the stock AGB hubs. Ryan used an SDG wheel and some spacers he had made by another member on here "Teddy" and bought a new brake rotor and some other minor mods to get his to work. You can call that dude in the link above and he can get you a set of motard wheels and tires that bolt right up (12" rear and 14" front) for a fair price and then you can just switch back and forth. They use a new wheel now on thier OPBS-X3 (which is an Orion with some extras) that looks closer to the SDG/Pitster wheel, dunno but maybe there is some possibilities there? Good luck man. If you have any more questions myself and RyanNJ would be more than happy to help you out

cparty27 · 07-31-2007, 01:13 PM

I've been PM'ing ryan on thumpertalk, and thats how I knew it would be a PITA. What link are you talking about? Ideally I'd love to be able to switch back and forth, but I didn't see any link posted. I do know there is no cheap and easy solution, its usually one or the other, but never both. I just don't want to spend $400 on wheels and tires for my side project.

711ismy# · 07-31-2007, 01:28 PM

Its on PitBoy's post "Orion Pit Bikes". Yeah tell me about it! I didn't want to spend a bunch of money either. I screwed up and figured I would just mod this stuff to fit cheaply and it turned out it was the same price if I would have just bought 2 rims from mmracing and custom spokes for the front except what I ended up with wasnt as good

I do know this though as another possibility. I took my stock wheels apart and laced the rear rim and spokes up to the front hub (I have the 07 hex style hubs BTW) and it did fit pretty nicely. There were maybe 8-10 spokes that would need to be ground down approx 1/8" when all tighened up. I say this because you could buy just a rear wheel and convert it and youll wind up with 2 1.85x12 aluminum wheels which is a decent motard setup (what I should have done if I only would have known). You wouldnt be able to swap back and forth though. Another thing you have to watch out for is tire size. You cant go any wider than a 100 up front (another thing I screwed myself on) and RyanNJ said his 120 in the rear rubs the chain guide. So I would maybe say no bigger than a 110 in the rear, Ryan would know best on that though, I actually cut my chain guide off and welded it back on about 1/2" further back so it wouldnt rub.

cparty27 · 08-01-2007, 06:52 AM

What about mounting a 14" tire to my 14" wheel? I see that the Michelin Pilot Sport SC comes in a few 14" sizes, would something like that work for the front, and then just get a 12" for the rear? I'm not racing for points, just trying to do cheap trackdays between expensive trackdays on my big bike.

Ryan NJ · 08-01-2007, 08:46 AM

You can try that, but you may find that alot of tracks limit the wheel size to 12". Also, when you motard these bikes, every bit of weight is pressed on that front. So you need the biggest stickyest thing you can find up there. If I were you, I would first call Jason at OrionPitBikeSales.com. Last I heard, he was getting a 12" front ready. That would mean that you could just pick up a wheel from him that would utilize your stock rotor, spacers, and line right up with your front caliper. I really suggest going the Dunlop route though. If you need me to chip in for those tires I may just do that. It's that important. the front size needs to be 100/90/12 and the rear needs to be 120/80/12. The rear chain guide will need to be removed or moved back. I just removed mine and I'm going to replace it with a $5 chain roller. The roller will just bolt right up the the rear hole left over from the ground off guide mount. Pictured below.

PitBoy · 08-01-2007, 09:00 AM

Having the larger front wheel I think would be a mistake simply from a geometry stand point. I would go with the 12" front and go from there. I have a set of dunlop tt91's also and they are a great tire but I am also impressed with the Bridgestone BT601ss's. The BT's are what I am running on my bike.

Ryan NJ · 08-01-2007, 09:05 AM

I like the bridgestones as well but they seem to be a little more pricey. From my experience, they are just as sticky and alot of guys are switching from the Dunlops to the Bridgestones. You may actually run into "out of stock" issues with both so get them on order right away. Also, the Dunlop TT92GP's are coming shortly. I think Teddy is getting a bunch. We should all plan on getting those from him as he is planning on buying quite a few just to get them imported for everyone on the boards.

cparty27 · 08-01-2007, 11:37 AM

I really want to go with the 12" front, but after hearing all of the horror stories I was a bit gun shy. Its in my budget to get the 12" front and the sticky lops or stones, but not if I have to spend all the time in the garage tinkering around to get the front to work and I can't hit the kart track. The idea is that I buy the bike (done), get it trackable for a couple hundred bucks(working on it), and do a few track days at the kart track before their winter mini-moto series starts. I figure that will be a good way to do some side racing on the cheap (relatively).

711ismy# · 08-01-2007, 12:39 PM

The thing that is kind of making it hard is the switching part. Since there is currently no bolt on solution maybe do what Ryan did for the front (with the spacerers and SDG wheel and then purchase a stock rear from an Orion dealer. Then you could swap back and forth and save on the trial and error since Ryan has the SDG front wheel part all mapped out? This would give you two sets that would be fairly easy to swap back and forth

Ryan NJ · 08-01-2007, 03:26 PM

I am writing up a detailed report on what to do, where to go, blah blah blah and I should have it done by next week with pictures.

PitBoy · 08-01-2007, 03:27 PM

Maybe I'm wrong but there are only two different types of axles. 12mm like the thumpstars and 15mm like the SDG's and most other brands. If you have 12mm just buy a thumpstar 12" front wheel otherwise buy an SDG wheel. Then the only issue should be with the spacers which your spacers might just pop right on. If not you can probably get a fabricator to cut one down for you. The only other issue I can see would be with the rotors. The thumpstars (if its a 12mm) use a 3 bolt pattern vs. the 4 bolt pattern like most other mfr's. But one solution might be to purchase one of the wheels off ebay, I know there is a guy who sells 15mm wheels with 12mm spacers /inserts to use on a 12mm axle. I really cant see this being a major issue but just a bit time consuming since you will have to address these issues one at a time as they occur.

711ismy# · 08-01-2007, 03:38 PM

Yeah true (where were you with the Thumpstar info a month ago?

lol). We are just trying to help him so he doesnt have to waste money experimenting like we did. One of the issues with the rotors was that the bolts rubbed because the Orion uses an offset rotor. It was just one thing after another after another with this bike. There may be some possibilities with the thumpstar wheel though, maybe you wanna give it a shot cparty? Sounds doable if you get thier brake rotor and screws with it. I just wish that PitBoy (Mr. Tues morning quarterback) could have enlightened us with this info a month ago! (lol, just busin your balls man that was a good suggestion)!

teddy · 08-01-2007, 04:17 PM

Thumpstar has a bike that can be set up for minimotard and semra runs a spec class with it......... 12" X 12".............

you have to just surf over the semra.org and read about the spec bike class, theres a special forum for this bike! They have about 30 racers running this bike.

So much time gets wasted on these conversions its amazing........ I'd think that the mods would have stikies built into this froum for such questions..... but then it would just be a bunch of crazy stickies now wouldn't it

I love our Xtremes........ so simple and basic........ and they last forever well almost

So 711 and Ryan when are you dudes gonna do a big write up about modifying these bikes you have?

711ismy# · 08-01-2007, 06:56 PM

Funny you should bring that up, one of the mods saw what was going on here and just PM'd me today to see if I could write up what I did. So I wrote it up and it is very long winded. I asked him if he wanted me to email it to him and then get some info from Ryan and put them both up so people could have some options

I still wish that PitBoy would have chimed in way back when we started lol that wheel might have made things easier? I screwed up bad by buying a pitster set with tires (that dont freaking fit)! Is there a Kenda K761 that is a 100/90-12 or 100/80-12 or 100/70-12 or 90/90-12 or anything that will freaking fit my front because I cant find one?

PitBoy · 08-01-2007, 07:51 PM

Sorry guys only found out about this place this month

I am not familiar with your Orion bikes at all so please take what I am saying with a grain of salt. I just know from doing a pretty extensive conversion taking an SDG front end and entended swing arm and bolting it onto a BSF aluminum frame (which didn't really fit at first) and then going through the same issues with the wheels and tires after taking the thumpstar front and rear end and bolting it up to the SDG...... it was a pain in the ass needless to say but the way I addressed all the problems was just to bolt it up and see where the conflicts were and address them one at a time. Good luck with your conversion, I've never had to address an issue with an offset rotor so I cant really contribute anything there.

711ismy# · 08-01-2007, 08:26 PM

The offset rotor just means make sure you buy the bolts that that Thumpstar uses to hold thier rotor on because they will be those special flat headed deals that you cant find anywhere else. So I guess you have a SDGBSFster or something huh? And forget about the kenda tires I asked about earlier. I went to thier site and the smallest they make is a 110! Damn!

PitBoy · 08-02-2007, 06:24 AM

Can you take a picture of the problem you are having with the front tire not fitting? Outside of it rubbing the fork leg I cant see where you would have an issue.

cparty27 · 08-02-2007, 07:20 AM

I found a 12" 12mm bearing ID front rim with a compatible front rotor that should work. Hopefully the only thing I'll have to worry about is the front spacers. I'm praying that I'll get lucky and it will just all bolt right up stock spacers and all, but I don't think that will be the case since the Orion has a slightly off-set rotor. Is there any issue with the wheel being off-set between the forks? I doubt I'm good enough to feel the difference, I'm just hoping I won't go through all that trouble and find out that since I had to off-set the wheel to make the rotor work now the front tire rubs on one side. I'm waiting on the write ups to see how Ryan NJ and 711ismy# did theirs. I might take one of their methods and run with it.

07-31-2007, 11:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
cparty27 PM Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: South Metro Atlanta Posts: 56	Easiest way to switch from dirt to street I recently picked up an Orion AGB-29. The intent it to teach my GF how to ride in the backyard and then put street tires on it so I can take it to the local kart track for their $25 trackdays. The bike currently has a 2.5 x 14 tire in the front and a 3.00 x 12 tire in the rear. I was hoping it would be as simple as grabbing a 12" wheel and some tires off of ebay just to scoot around and have fun, but it looks like thats not the case. What do you recommend for switching from dirt tires to street. Can I fin a 14" street tire that will fit, and be halfway decent at the kart track? Should I try to swap to a 12" rim? I'm trying to do this on the cheap. Trackdays are expensive enough on my big bike and I was hoping this would be inexpensive.

07-31-2007, 11:24 AM	#2 (permalink)
PitBoy 1st Gear Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 163	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street I'm sure Orion makes a 12" front wheel. You should be able to just pick one up from them directly and swap it out. Shouldn't be that difficult. Worst case, you buy a 12" ring and some heavy duty spoke and lace up the 12" ring to your existing hub. Either way, a few hours work and you're done. Here's a link to their website directly. You can call them and ask about just buying a new wheel.... Orion Pit Bikes Last edited by PitBoy; 07-31-2007 at 11:34 AM.

07-31-2007, 12:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
711ismy# 1st Gear Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 243	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street Oh its that difficult! Me and RyanNJ are going through this right now and it has been no picnic. I took one route where I bought a set of pitster wheels and had to un-lace them and use my AGB rear spokes for the rear and the pitster rear spokes for the front with the stock AGB hubs. Ryan used an SDG wheel and some spacers he had made by another member on here "Teddy" and bought a new brake rotor and some other minor mods to get his to work. You can call that dude in the link above and he can get you a set of motard wheels and tires that bolt right up (12" rear and 14" front) for a fair price and then you can just switch back and forth. They use a new wheel now on thier OPBS-X3 (which is an Orion with some extras) that looks closer to the SDG/Pitster wheel, dunno but maybe there is some possibilities there? Good luck man. If you have any more questions myself and RyanNJ would be more than happy to help you out

07-31-2007, 01:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
cparty27 PM Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: South Metro Atlanta Posts: 56	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street I've been PM'ing ryan on thumpertalk, and thats how I knew it would be a PITA. What link are you talking about? Ideally I'd love to be able to switch back and forth, but I didn't see any link posted. I do know there is no cheap and easy solution, its usually one or the other, but never both. I just don't want to spend $400 on wheels and tires for my side project.

07-31-2007, 01:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
711ismy# 1st Gear Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 243	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street Its on PitBoy's post "Orion Pit Bikes". Yeah tell me about it! I didn't want to spend a bunch of money either. I screwed up and figured I would just mod this stuff to fit cheaply and it turned out it was the same price if I would have just bought 2 rims from mmracing and custom spokes for the front except what I ended up with wasnt as good I do know this though as another possibility. I took my stock wheels apart and laced the rear rim and spokes up to the front hub (I have the 07 hex style hubs BTW) and it did fit pretty nicely. There were maybe 8-10 spokes that would need to be ground down approx 1/8" when all tighened up. I say this because you could buy just a rear wheel and convert it and youll wind up with 2 1.85x12 aluminum wheels which is a decent motard setup (what I should have done if I only would have known). You wouldnt be able to swap back and forth though. Another thing you have to watch out for is tire size. You cant go any wider than a 100 up front (another thing I screwed myself on) and RyanNJ said his 120 in the rear rubs the chain guide. So I would maybe say no bigger than a 110 in the rear, Ryan would know best on that though, I actually cut my chain guide off and welded it back on about 1/2" further back so it wouldnt rub. Last edited by 711ismy#; 07-31-2007 at 01:32 PM.

08-01-2007, 06:52 AM	#6 (permalink)
cparty27 PM Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: South Metro Atlanta Posts: 56	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street What about mounting a 14" tire to my 14" wheel? I see that the Michelin Pilot Sport SC comes in a few 14" sizes, would something like that work for the front, and then just get a 12" for the rear? I'm not racing for points, just trying to do cheap trackdays between expensive trackdays on my big bike.

08-01-2007, 08:46 AM	#7 (permalink)
Ryan NJ 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 262	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street You can try that, but you may find that alot of tracks limit the wheel size to 12". Also, when you motard these bikes, every bit of weight is pressed on that front. So you need the biggest stickyest thing you can find up there. If I were you, I would first call Jason at OrionPitBikeSales.com. Last I heard, he was getting a 12" front ready. That would mean that you could just pick up a wheel from him that would utilize your stock rotor, spacers, and line right up with your front caliper. I really suggest going the Dunlop route though. If you need me to chip in for those tires I may just do that. It's that important. the front size needs to be 100/90/12 and the rear needs to be 120/80/12. The rear chain guide will need to be removed or moved back. I just removed mine and I'm going to replace it with a $5 chain roller. The roller will just bolt right up the the rear hole left over from the ground off guide mount. Pictured below.

08-01-2007, 09:00 AM	#8 (permalink)
PitBoy 1st Gear Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 163	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street Having the larger front wheel I think would be a mistake simply from a geometry stand point. I would go with the 12" front and go from there. I have a set of dunlop tt91's also and they are a great tire but I am also impressed with the Bridgestone BT601ss's. The BT's are what I am running on my bike.

08-01-2007, 09:05 AM	#9 (permalink)
Ryan NJ 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 262	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street I like the bridgestones as well but they seem to be a little more pricey. From my experience, they are just as sticky and alot of guys are switching from the Dunlops to the Bridgestones. You may actually run into "out of stock" issues with both so get them on order right away. Also, the Dunlop TT92GP's are coming shortly. I think Teddy is getting a bunch. We should all plan on getting those from him as he is planning on buying quite a few just to get them imported for everyone on the boards. Last edited by Ryan NJ; 08-01-2007 at 09:33 AM.

08-01-2007, 11:37 AM	#10 (permalink)
cparty27 PM Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: South Metro Atlanta Posts: 56	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street I really want to go with the 12" front, but after hearing all of the horror stories I was a bit gun shy. Its in my budget to get the 12" front and the sticky lops or stones, but not if I have to spend all the time in the garage tinkering around to get the front to work and I can't hit the kart track. The idea is that I buy the bike (done), get it trackable for a couple hundred bucks(working on it), and do a few track days at the kart track before their winter mini-moto series starts. I figure that will be a good way to do some side racing on the cheap (relatively).

08-01-2007, 12:39 PM	#11 (permalink)
711ismy# 1st Gear Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 243	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street The thing that is kind of making it hard is the switching part. Since there is currently no bolt on solution maybe do what Ryan did for the front (with the spacerers and SDG wheel and then purchase a stock rear from an Orion dealer. Then you could swap back and forth and save on the trial and error since Ryan has the SDG front wheel part all mapped out? This would give you two sets that would be fairly easy to swap back and forth

08-01-2007, 03:26 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ryan NJ 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 262	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street I am writing up a detailed report on what to do, where to go, blah blah blah and I should have it done by next week with pictures.

08-01-2007, 03:27 PM	#13 (permalink)
PitBoy 1st Gear Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 163	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street Maybe I'm wrong but there are only two different types of axles. 12mm like the thumpstars and 15mm like the SDG's and most other brands. If you have 12mm just buy a thumpstar 12" front wheel otherwise buy an SDG wheel. Then the only issue should be with the spacers which your spacers might just pop right on. If not you can probably get a fabricator to cut one down for you. The only other issue I can see would be with the rotors. The thumpstars (if its a 12mm) use a 3 bolt pattern vs. the 4 bolt pattern like most other mfr's. But one solution might be to purchase one of the wheels off ebay, I know there is a guy who sells 15mm wheels with 12mm spacers /inserts to use on a 12mm axle. I really cant see this being a major issue but just a bit time consuming since you will have to address these issues one at a time as they occur.

08-01-2007, 03:38 PM	#14 (permalink)
711ismy# 1st Gear Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 243	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street Yeah true (where were you with the Thumpstar info a month ago? lol). We are just trying to help him so he doesnt have to waste money experimenting like we did. One of the issues with the rotors was that the bolts rubbed because the Orion uses an offset rotor. It was just one thing after another after another with this bike. There may be some possibilities with the thumpstar wheel though, maybe you wanna give it a shot cparty? Sounds doable if you get thier brake rotor and screws with it. I just wish that PitBoy (Mr. Tues morning quarterback) could have enlightened us with this info a month ago! (lol, just busin your balls man that was a good suggestion)!

08-01-2007, 04:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
teddy 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: southeast MI. Posts: 1,265	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street Thumpstar has a bike that can be set up for minimotard and semra runs a spec class with it......... 12" X 12"............. you have to just surf over the semra.org and read about the spec bike class, theres a special forum for this bike! They have about 30 racers running this bike. So much time gets wasted on these conversions its amazing........ I'd think that the mods would have stikies built into this froum for such questions..... but then it would just be a bunch of crazy stickies now wouldn't it I love our Xtremes........ so simple and basic........ and they last forever well almost So 711 and Ryan when are you dudes gonna do a big write up about modifying these bikes you have?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

08-01-2007, 06:56 PM	#16 (permalink)
711ismy# 1st Gear Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 243	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street Funny you should bring that up, one of the mods saw what was going on here and just PM'd me today to see if I could write up what I did. So I wrote it up and it is very long winded. I asked him if he wanted me to email it to him and then get some info from Ryan and put them both up so people could have some options I still wish that PitBoy would have chimed in way back when we started lol that wheel might have made things easier? I screwed up bad by buying a pitster set with tires (that dont freaking fit)! Is there a Kenda K761 that is a 100/90-12 or 100/80-12 or 100/70-12 or 90/90-12 or anything that will freaking fit my front because I cant find one?

08-01-2007, 07:51 PM	#17 (permalink)
PitBoy 1st Gear Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 163	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street Sorry guys only found out about this place this month I am not familiar with your Orion bikes at all so please take what I am saying with a grain of salt. I just know from doing a pretty extensive conversion taking an SDG front end and entended swing arm and bolting it onto a BSF aluminum frame (which didn't really fit at first) and then going through the same issues with the wheels and tires after taking the thumpstar front and rear end and bolting it up to the SDG...... it was a pain in the ass needless to say but the way I addressed all the problems was just to bolt it up and see where the conflicts were and address them one at a time. Good luck with your conversion, I've never had to address an issue with an offset rotor so I cant really contribute anything there.

08-01-2007, 08:26 PM	#18 (permalink)
711ismy# 1st Gear Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 243	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street The offset rotor just means make sure you buy the bolts that that Thumpstar uses to hold thier rotor on because they will be those special flat headed deals that you cant find anywhere else. So I guess you have a SDGBSFster or something huh? And forget about the kenda tires I asked about earlier. I went to thier site and the smallest they make is a 110! Damn!

08-02-2007, 06:24 AM	#19 (permalink)
PitBoy 1st Gear Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 163	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street Can you take a picture of the problem you are having with the front tire not fitting? Outside of it rubbing the fork leg I cant see where you would have an issue.

08-02-2007, 07:20 AM	#20 (permalink)
cparty27 PM Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: South Metro Atlanta Posts: 56	Re: Easiest way to switch from dirt to street I found a 12" 12mm bearing ID front rim with a compatible front rotor that should work. Hopefully the only thing I'll have to worry about is the front spacers. I'm praying that I'll get lucky and it will just all bolt right up stock spacers and all, but I don't think that will be the case since the Orion has a slightly off-set rotor. Is there any issue with the wheel being off-set between the forks? I doubt I'm good enough to feel the difference, I'm just hoping I won't go through all that trouble and find out that since I had to off-set the wheel to make the rotor work now the front tire rubs on one side. I'm waiting on the write ups to see how Ryan NJ and 711ismy# did theirs. I might take one of their methods and run with it.